Trans players in chess

@Brian-E said in #179:

1989. Wow! As I remember it, awareness of trans people in those days was virtually nil. Coming out back then must have taken incredible courage.

It was ‘interesting’ ... ie broken ribs once and concussion, but, people don’t understand that possibly words can hurt more.

@booktrunk Firstly, I wrote the original post. I do not need to interpret it as anti-trans, as I know that I am not anti-trans, nor is anything in the original post. I would appreciate not being branded as homophobic so casually, and would urge you to consider your words in the future.

For @greenteakitten, if you read my post, my argument is very clear, besides I only specify a category that should exist for people BORN FEMALE, this means that HALF of trans people would be able to compete, for reasons that I have very clearly expressed. Here is the original post:
@ReallyLowELO said in #1:

How does no-one seem to understand the reason women have a separate category in chess, is due to flawed inclusivity in young age groups? And there is no ‘mens’ category, only an ‘open’ one, as there is no other fundamental difference in the playing ability between men and women. The great push by (virtue signalling) sites, for trans players to be allowed to play in women’s categories only increases the marginalisation of those raised as girls playing in chess, and adding to one of the least forward thinking and progressive games/sports on the planet.

@ReallyLowELO

I did in fact read your original post before asking you that question, and while you have a very clear argument about people being born female you don't give us a direct reason as to why not having a biological female only section would lead to marginalisation of girls.

@greenteakitten Are you suggesting that chess isn’t encouraged to young boys way more than girls? Obviously not catering for the under-represented group would be marginalising in that instance. I’m kinda confused by your line of questioning, otherwise there would never be a debate and there would only be an open section, no gender divides at all. If this is what you don’t understand, then why has there only ever been 1 woman ever in the top ten chess players in the world?

@Brian-E said in #175:

Not wishing to interrupt, just want to say how refreshing it is to see this topic so expertly picked up by various people who know what they're talking about. It's great to see this important discussion no longer dominated by ignorant hatred as it was early on. I don't want to upvote people now because there's so much and I might miss people out, but I am reading a lot of this discussion and appreciating it.

Yes thank you, I find it hard to believe that in 2024 we are even having this discussion!! :(( But sadly there is so much hatred around!!:((

@ReallyLowELO

Are you implying then that the women's section is catering to the under-represented group?

As much as I would like to say that the women's section has been a great temporary solution to reduce sexual harassment and sexism in chess, as well as to help women climb up the ranks in chess, it's just a Band-Aid solution. It works not because it addresses the problem, but because it goes around the problem.

Why are we settling for just going around the problem?

And for that matter, how does catering to women through the women's section make integrating trans people in there impossible?

@booktrunk said in #171:

This men saying they are women for the odd event is utterly absurd and a stupid argument, you know it doesn’t happen. Do you think they wave a magic wand and are trans one day and not the next... you do know you aren’t trans for a chess tour and then not.... Sigh.
@booktrunk said in #181:
It was ‘interesting’ ... ie broken ribs once and concussion, but, people don’t understand that possibly words can hurt more.

Yes, sigh, sigh!! :(( so true and so disgusting, I've been I guess 'gender neutral' from a young age personally. But my very cool mother taught me to hate any prejudice from a very young age when I was born in the early 1960's. Even if parents don't teach you, people should be able to think for themselves!! But guess the media controls them sadly :((

@ReallyLowELO said in #184:

@greenteakitten Are you suggesting that chess isn’t encouraged to young boys way more than girls? Obviously not catering for the under-represented group would be marginalising in that instance. I’m kinda confused by your line of questioning, otherwise there would never be a debate and there would only be an open section, no gender divides at all. If this is what you don’t understand, then why has there only ever been 1 woman ever in the top ten chess players in the world?

Dery dear!! Do we really have to spell out that yet again!! It's just a question of numbers!!! Female players/trans female players are equally as strong, but less of us!! Who are playing chess, no thanks to your views by the way!!!

If you don't trust our views!! then you can always check out Magnus and Naka's views on the subject!! Lols!! Seems they have some brain cells too!!:))

That there are no woman in the top tells me that woman also have their priorities straight. I mean, only the top 20 can live off of chess as it is not a big TV sport. I would much rather my kids persue another career than chess and rather have them play chess as a fun hobby, regardless of gender

@Buny77 Although sadly a reason for a lot of girls not playing the game, it is not ONLY misogyny that turns young girls away. Even Naka said in the context you are reffering to that you girls also lose interest in the game as they grow older as they broaden their horizons a lot better than the boys do. And honestly, I am happy for them that they find other things in life. Chess is not important at all. Come to think of it, it is by far the least important thing in life. We praise a handful of people that have "made it" in chess, but for the average player, nobody cares. No one even knows who you are, except in the local chess club(s). Its nice for the social aspect, but so are a lot of other activities. But it is a fun activity. Its like playing a guitar and if you are good enough you get to play the local pubs with a few friends and reherse a couple of times each week. I don ́t mind that actually. Its a nice hobby. But that all it is. A hobby

@ReallyLowELO said in #182:

[...] I only specify a category that should exist for people BORN FEMALE, this means that HALF of trans people would be able to compete, for reasons that I have very clearly expressed [...]

That's an interesting point of view. So you think that trans men should be welcome in the women's categories in chess if they were assigned the female gender at birth?

A year or two back I remember a TV documentary about gender in which a trans guy took part. He was a huge, strapping young man, definitely "one of the lads". The documentary at this point was covering the tiresome old question about which bathrooms or changing facilities trans people should be using. This big guy sighed, looked at person who'd raised the issue (who was a woman) quizzically, and said: "Do you REALLY want me in the women's bathroom??"